The following is a transcript of an interview with Mouaz Moustafa, executive director of the Syria Emergency Task Force, and Andrew Boyd, former director of the CIA’s Cyber Intelligence Center, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” which aired on December 8. , 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For some analysis on the unfolding events in the Middle East, we’re joined now by Andrew Boyd, a CBS News contributor who previously held leadership positions in the CIA and once served in Damascus as a foreign service officer, and Mouaz Moustafa. , the executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force. Welcome back to “Face the Nation”. Mouaz, I want to start with you. You have been involved with the Syrian opposition for over a decade. Help us understand what it means to see the regime fall.
MOUAZ MOUSTAFA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SYRIA EMERGENCY TASK FORCE: It is an indescribable feeling of- of happiness that- that this regime, this dictator who has committed the worst crimes of the 21st century, alongside Russia, and Iran, and ISIS, all these horrible people have been defeated by a coalition of rebel forces that needed no support from any outside country, not Turkey, not Qatar, not anyone. This time, Syria was liberated by its people, for its people. And it’s really inspiring. And not only are these good repercussions for Syria, but also for the Middle East and Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a lot of uncertainty about what this all means. Andy, you’ve watched this region very closely for a while. At this point, none of the officials I’ve talked to in the regional governments, in the US government, seem to know how far Bashar al-Assad went. Does it matter where it went?
ANDREW BOYD, FMR. DIRECTOR OF THE CIA CENTER FOR CYBER INTELLIGENCE: Mouaz may differ on this one. I don’t think it does, now that the government has fallen. I think what’s going to happen in the next few weeks, and if the opposition really treats all the factions in Syria with dignity and respect and guarantees their safety, we’ll have more understanding, because you know, there’s a lot going on. of the atrocities committed by the Assad regime. Those people are probably still in Syria, so we’ll see how that goes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A fair point, the people who worked under the regime are still there.
BOYD: Syrian military intelligence, the other intelligence services, the Syrian Directorate General of Intelligence, I mean, they have a lot of blood on their hands.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, and I know that you personally, Mouaz, were involved in the smuggling of documented evidence of some of the torture, of the mass atrocities, of the systematic and institutionalized violence that occurred from some of the these prisons You took it to Congress. You made it public. What do you think we can learn now that these billing buildings are being seized by the rebels?
MOUSTAFA: Well, the first thing we’re working very hard on, and I can tell you that all the rebel factions are working very hard on doing this, is to find Austin Tice and hopefully bring him home, God willing, alive, to his family…
MARGARET BRENNAN: An American journalist who once worked for CBS News for a time, a Navy veteran.
MOUSTAFA: And he is a hero. He went to cover the plight of the Syrian people because of what Assad, Iran and Russia have been doing to them, and God willing, we will bring him home alive, but we must find him and bring him to his mother, it doesn’t matter. what And the Syrians are forever in his debt. In addition, other Americans who are not declared. And releasing Syrians from prisons is a really important thing, but the collection of that intelligence, as well as the Hezbollah, Iranian, Russian, Assad regime, any official that has been arrested by the Syrian people, again, without no support from the international community or regional countries, who really worked to try to save Assad, that’s valuable, that’s valuable for the United States. That is why we must commit to this new emerging government which, God willing, is the path to democracy. The only Arab country in the world hoping to be a democracy is Syria. This is incredible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a big promise to make.
MOUSTAFA: It’s not a promise, it’s hope, that’s realistic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Hope. Andy, but right now, the person that we’re seeing emerge—we showed him, at the Umayyad Mosque, a hugely symbolic place to come to give a speech, in Damascus—is this leader of a terrorist group, designated by the United States as a terrorist, a $10 million bounty on his head.
BOYD: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean to you?
BOYD: Well, as Congressman Turner said, it’s not going to be an easy process to de-designate Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That means the US can’t talk to him.
BOYD: The US can’t talk to him. I mean, we know, we can accommodate some kind of flexibility, but it’s not going to come off the designation list right away. So, I mean, we’ll see. I mean, you said this, that you will respect all the factions, the Druze, the Christians, even the Shiites and the Alawites, who were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Syrians…
MOUSTAFA: I speak for his actions, not his words. Aleppo, etc. You could talk to the bishop of Aleppo, but yes, absolutely.
BOYD: Right, but, you know, time will tell. I mean, I’m a natural born skeptic, as are many of my colleagues at the agency. we’ll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Go ahead, Mouaz. Tell us who’s in it; you talked about it as a coalition, not just HTS. Who are these people who now seem to be in control of Syria?
MOUSTAFA: Of course. First of all, since the entire world is reducing the entire Syrian revolution to one faction of a coalition, or say, even one person within a faction of that coalition, let’s talk about it. Why was HTS put on the terrorist list? He was listed as a terrorist on an old version called Jabhat al-Nusra that had a loose affiliation with al-Qaeda, not the transnational or regional terrorist, but an inter-Islamist, whatever. I don’t agree with any…
BOYD: But, but Mouaz, I think Margaret is also speaking as a person of Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani. I mean, he was in Al-Qaeda in Iraq. He worked for Abu Musab Zarqawi. He spent several years in Bucca prison as a detainee, you know, so we’re also talking about HTS, Jabhat al-Nusra, but also about him as a person. He is appointed…
MOUSTAFA: Sure, let’s talk about him as a person. But what’s hilarious about this is, right now, millions of Syrians are coming back from Europe and they’re ready to go home, because people haven’t been displaced, and there’s been no reports of violations, and I he was on the phone with the Bishop of Aleppo. The reason I was on the phone is that President Trump and people in President Trump’s camp were concerned about the Christians in Syria. Of course, there’s so much focus on, you know, whenever there’s something — terrorists, terrorists. And- and what ended up happening is that the bishop of Aleppo said, Lord, first, it’s the coalition of groups, including HTS, and now we have more electricity than we had under the regime, and our only fear is Russian airstrikes. So I’m glad President Trump still told Russia what it should do: get out of Syria, and it has.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll be watching to see if that continues and what happens. And what does it mean for…
MOUSTAFA: One last thing, Margaret, it’s very important…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mouaz, I have to go. I’m very sorry.
MOUSTAFA: But al-Qaeda in Syria [UNINTEL]it is the affiliate, and HTS has defeated it and it has defeated ISIS. The old name is somewhat irrelevant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll see this developing story and we’ll be right back.